Longwich Lore: The Hoagie In 2019, I wrote the following: Submarine sandwiches go by many names. Hoagies, Grinders, Torpedos, Heros, Po’Boys… the list goes on and on. For the most part, these are all referring to much the same thing. There are outliers–Grinders and Po’Boys, generally, refer to sandwiches with hot fillings, for example, while the majority of these are stuffed with cold cuts–but the commonalities are clear. Long sandwiches, served in long, skinny bread rolls split open for the purpose rather than sliced. Italian-style cold cuts. Cheese, maybe. Tomato and lettuce, oil and vinegar, herbs. Some other veggies might not go amiss–onions, bell peppers, olives, etc., and some hot peppers in the form of some kind of relish are almost always welcome. The thesis, I suppose, was that for the most part, long sandwiches are all interchangeable, the different names owing more to regional linguistic divisions rather than substantive structural differences between the different sandwiches going by those names. And from a certain distance, that may seem to be true. But for several years now, I have lurked in a Facebook group called Hoagie Gurus in an attempt to learn more about this particular subgenre of sandwich. While the people posting there don’t all agree on every specific aspect of the hoagie, they are passionate and they have big-O Opinions about the sandwich. And looking over the images posted in the group–to be honest, there definitely seem to be a lot of similarities. Hoagie Gurus Of course we’ve written about several other Submarine-style sandwiches with varying levels of uniqueness as their own categories–po’boys and grinders are unique enough to rate their own writeups; but Australia’s Continental Roll the Dutch/Belgian Broodje Gezond both share a lot of similarities to sandwiches that I’d call Subs. There are unique touches and ingredients that highlight the differences between our cultural tastes and theirs, and that’s interesting to explore–but in the end they are essentially just another “longwich.” Dialect map of sandwich names. Source: Reddit But we’ve also featured the steamed hoagies of Knoxville, a completely different breed of hoagie. The more typical style of hoagie, let’s call it the East Coast Hoagie–it may be underrepresented on this site. It’s starting to feel important for us to acknowledge that, yes, a hoagie is a pretty specific type of sandwich along a certain corridor of the East Coast. And that corridor centers, as many sandwich stories do, on the city of Philadelphia. You may be more likely to associate the cheesesteak with Philadelphia, or the roast pork and greens sandwich served there as well. But in 1992, Mayor Ed Rendell of Philadelphia proclaimed Hoagies the official sandwich of the city. Hoagies developed in Philadelphia during the first half of the 20th Century, invented like so many American sandwiches by Italian immigrants, but the exact origin is still a matter of some speculation, with alternate competing etymologies. Hog Island: During World War I, the US Navy had a shipyard on an area along the Delaware River that’s known as Hog Island. According to this theory, the sandwich was developed to feed the shipyard workers, who were known as “hoggies”–or possibly the sandwich itself was called a “Hog Island Sandwich” or Hoggie for short, eventually becoming “Hoagie.” Hokey Pokey: According to this theory, the Italian street vendors who originally sold these sandwiches were known as “Hokey Pokey Men” and the term “hoagie” is derived from that name. Al DePalma: According to my friend (and sometimes Sandwich Tribunal contributor) Mary Rizzo, the most likely explanation is that a musician named Al DePalma was looking for work in the shipyards and saw some of the workers eating long bread rolls stuffed with meats and cheeses, thinking to himself, “they look like pigs!” So he started selling sandwiches just like it and calling them hoggies. There are other theories as well. I even read that there’s a common belief that the sandwich was named after big band songwriter and pianist Hoagy Carmichael–and since “hoagie” is a common misspelling of his name, that similarity does complicate the search for documentation. So the hoagie–or at least the word hoagie–was developed in the early 20th Century in or around Philadelphia. But what makes the sandwich unique? What, exactly, is a hoagie? Once again I turn to the Facebook group Hoagie Gurus for my answer. I found this description in a post from early 2025 and despite some quibbling in the comments (“Definitely no need to hollow out a good roll then your just getting the crust of the roll not the chewy inside and crust.” “Vinegar and oil, no mayo.” “Hoagies by nickname have been around for about 100yrs. Taking out the inside of a roll before you make a sandwich is certainly not something they’ve always done. That’s the exact opposite of traditional.”) and the extremely apt summary “Thanks for the AI overview of what people are saying,” it’s a pretty accurate description of all the sandwiches in the screenshot above: A traditional old school Philly Hoagie starts with a fresh baked long roll that is crusty on the outside and soft and slightly chewy on the inside. The roll is hollowed out and cradles thinly cut meats and cheeses leaving room for a perfectly dressed salad in the center. The salad traditionally consists of shredded iceberg lettuce, onion, tomatoes, oil, salt, pepper, and oregano. Many people also enjoy adding sweet, hot, or cherry peppers. One can quibble about individual ingredients, but this is how they were constructed in the last 3 decades of the 20th Century. I lived all over from Northwest Philly, to the Northeast, to South Philly, and there was very little variation from this formula if any. But this description also falls short of capturing what’s unique about a hoagie, so I’ll add a few caveats of my own. These are by no means universal, but they do seem to be common features of a hoagie. First off, the bread is not sliced all the way through as it often is with a sub sandwich or a po’boy. Hoagie rolls are left hinged on one side to keep everything in. Sometimes, instead of clearing out some of the bread’s crumb, a hoagie maker will drizzle some olive oil and vinegar on the bread itself to help keep the sandwich from being too dry. The meats are often laid out fully across the bread, so that when the sandwich is closed up they curl into a C shape lining the bread. The salad–shredded lettuce, thin slices of red or white onion, and sliced tomato dressed with salt and pepper, oregano, oil and vinegar–is usually placed atop the meat rather than between the meat and the bread, so that the salad is encircled by the meat, which in turn is surrounded by the bread. And the bread is important. Not just any sub sandwich bread can form the basis for a hoagie. It should be a good, crusty bread, soft and a little chewy on the inside, often coated with sesame seeds. Everywhere I went in Philadelphia on the 2 occasions I’ve been there, the bread was outstanding. That is often the hardest part to replicate elsewhere. Philadelphia bread, Italian Market And it’s part of why the hoagies that we do have in Chicago–often sold at black-owned southside shops that also feature sweet steak sandwiches, like Taurus Flavors–are so different from the hoagies of Philadelphia. Different enough from east coast hoagies, yet similar enough to each other, that I think they might be considered a variant of the sandwich. So let’s pause and digress for a moment to talk about The Chicago Hoagy The Chicago-style hoagie (often spelled “hoagy” such as at Home of the Hoagy on 111th Street, Hoagy House near the South Shore Cultural Center, or Fitch’s Home of the Hoagy in Country Club Hills) consists of cold cuts, onion, tomato, pickle, and often pepperoncini peppers, dressed with vinegar, oil, and dried herbs, rolled up in a sturdy bread roll with a hinge on one side. They bear many superficial similarities to the hoagies of the East Coast, but I imagine if I were to post one of them on the Hoagie Gurus Facebook page I’ve been mentioning, I’d be laughed out of the group. That’s not to say that they’re bad, necessarily. They’re a satisfying sandwich. But they would not scratch the itch of someone wanting an east coast hoagie. Here’s one I bought at Home of the Hoagy recently. The meats are not advertised on the menu but appear to be a turkey ham and a turkey cotto salami, sliced thicker than you’d normally get at a deli. The salad, as mentioned, consists of pickles, thin-sliced onions, tomatoes, and pepperoncini peppers–no lettuce–dressed in an oil, vinegar, and herb combination. There are slices of American cheese tucked between the meat and the bread–and the bread deserves mention here, because it’s not bad bread, but it is the kind of sturdy Chicago-area “French Roll” that you might normally see used in an Italian Beef sandwich, a bread that is substantial enough to survive dunking in hot beef broth, with a softer crust and a chewier crumb than the bread you’d find at a deli in Philadelphia. Along with my “hoagy” I got an order of quite good fresh-cut fries doused in mild sauce, a kind of thin tangy southside Chicago hybrid of barbecue sauce and ketchup. I need to go back and try the sweet steak soon–and in fact I just realized that sandwich is not currently on our List so I am correcting that situation. Italian Hoagie But satisfying or not, almost nothing about that sandwich–the meats, the cheese, the bread, even the salad–would be recognized by a Philadelphian as belonging in a hoagie. The meats should be the finer cold cuts sold by an Italian deli in America: prosciutto, speck, capocollo, soppressata, Genoa salami. The cheese should be provolone, either mild or sharp, though a fresh mozzarella would be a refreshing change of pace for some sandwiches. The salad would normally not feature pickles (though not everyone is a hard-liner about that) and would feature lettuce. And rather than pickled pepperoncini peppers, the sandwich might be given a bit of brightness and heat by adding a cherry pepper relish. In my mad rush to get things together at the deli, I neglected to order speck, but I did add some pepperoni for fun. For cheese I got a “picante” American provolone, less sharp than an imported provolone but easier to slice for sandwiches. For the bread, I used sesame seed hoagie rolls produced by a local supermarket bakery that are a pretty good–not perfect, but pretty good–substitute for the bread you can get in Philadelphia. And I hollowed out the crumb just a bit to make room for all that meat. Prosciutto, capocollo, hot soppressata, Genoa salami, and pepperoni. Then sharp provolone, shredded iceberg lettuce, thinly sliced white onion, tomato, salt and pepper, oregano, oil and vinegar, and some hot cherry pepper relish. Then I closed it up, sliced it in half, and wrapped it in butcher paper to help it keep its shape. And when I cut it in half, that cross-section looked an awful lot like all those hoagies from the Facebook group. And this is a great sandwich, if you’re a person (like me) who likes big flavors. One complaint about a sandwich like this is that it flattens the unique individual flavors of each type of cured meat into a single giant salt bomb, and I suppose there is some truth to that. But the amalgam of flavors produces its own shifting gestalt, by turns tinged with fermentation’s funk from the sharp cheese or the salami or the prosciutto, then the pungency of onion and vinegar, then the capsaicin heat of the hot soppressata and the cherry pepper relish. Each bite reveals layers, a palimpsest of salted meat upon salted meat painted on the canvas of bread. Turkey Hoagie But the hoagie treatment is not reserved for Italian meats alone. Look at the menu of a favorite Philadelphia hoagie spot, say, Cosmi’s Deli or Ricci’s Hoagies or Angelo’s Pizzeria. You’ll see plenty of hoagies other than those using Italian salume–chicken salad, or corned beef, or ham and cheese. Or turkey. It’s not the specific meats that make the hoagie. It’s everything that goes around them. So I made a turkey hoagie as well. I am not a fan of deli turkey. When November comes around I am a fiend for turkey. I will roast and eat multiple turkeys around the Thanksgiving holiday, one to make stock from for gravy and stuffing, one on the holiday itself, another one sometimes just because there are so many in the store at this time of year. It’s not turkey itself that I find objectionable. But deli turkey is often bland, gelatinous, flavorless. It’s a challenge to make a good sandwich out of it. But it turns out that with some sharp provolone, some cherry pepper relish, some salad dressed in oil and vinegar, salt and pepper and oregano, and a good sesame seed hoagie roll–turkey makes a pretty good sandwich filling. And that specificity, of construction, of the non-marquee ingredients, of the type and quality of bread, the broadness of its applicability and the universality of the result, makes the hoagie more than just a variant of the Submarine sandwich. It is a notable sandwich that stands on its own. I’ve been to Philadelphia twice already, and there are more cities out there that I have yet to visit–but this revelation may require a return visit to explore the city’s hoagies. There’s clearly more to learn before I can consider myself a Hoagie Guru. The post Longwich Lore: The Hoagie first appeared on Sandwich Tribunal. https://www.sandwichtribunal.com/2026/10/longwich-lore-the-hoagie/ #hoagie #philadelphia #eastcoast #grinders #long #gurus #rss #feeds #linksharing #qwibbit